Resilience, Joy and Mental Wellness
Episode 62
Emmy Brunner is a psychotherapist and founder of The Recover Clinic. During her 20 years in the field, Emmy has discovered patterns in the ways women are conditioned to respond to trauma and life challenges. She believes that we’ve all experienced trauma in our lives and that ‘mental illness’ is our response to trauma.
In this episode, Emmy tells us that our patriarchal society and advertising culture bullies women, and we have to find ways to build inner strength and resilience, so as not to accept unachievable beauty standards as the norm. These messages are created to tap into our vulnerabilities and foster feelings of shame, and our healing is to separate from them and find our own voice.
The conversation also explores the impact of moving online this year, and the impact of the pandemic and social isolation on our mental wellbeing. And finally, Emmy calls for us all to look for joy and embrace life, and to challenge ingrained beliefs within us that say that’s not possible.
This conversation was recorded on 27th November 2020. I hope you enjoy listening.
This episode is brought to you by Ohne. Find out more - https://www.thewotpod.com/ohne
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Episode Chapters
Chapter 1 3:33 - The beginnings
Chapter 2 4:48 - Trauma and healing
Chapter 3 08:30 - Waking up to marketing and advertising
Chapter 4 12:54 - Becoming wise to your narrative
Chapter 5 14:11 - Manifestation and creating opportunities for ourselves
Chapter 6 16:56 - ‘What would we all be doing if we thought we could?’
Chapter 7 19:32 - ‘The darkest moments are when a little bit of light comes in’ — 2020
Chapter 8 - 21:30 - Our lives online
Connect with Emmy Brunner
Connect with Frankie Cotton
Team
Guests - Emmy Brunner
Host - Frankie Cotton
Production Support - Georgia Buchanan
Sound Editor - Beth Davison
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EPISODE 62 TRANSCRIPT
Frankie Cotton Emmy, welcome to Women on Top.
Emmy Brunner Thank you so much for having me.
Frankie Cotton How are you, first of all?
Emmy Brunner I'm really good. I've had a really busy week with work. But that's good. That's fun. Yeah, I'm grateful. Happy to be here.
Frankie Cotton Good. Well Emmy, I wonder if we could start can you tell us what brought you to the field of psychotherapy and the work that you do?
Emmy Brunner Yep, I tried to be a psychotherapist pretty young, it's a second career for a lot of people. But I was in my early 20s when I qualified, and I think I was really first and foremost really intrigued about how we can support people to heal and support their own sort of mental health journeys. And my own experiences that I'd been really unwell as a young person and had various different sort of mental health crises and really struggled to find the kind of support and help that I felt I needed and just wasn't very inspired to get better. And so when I trained, I really wanted to create something that was going to inspire life in people again, rather than just teaching them how to manage their mental health conditions.
Frankie Cotton And yeah, that's super interesting. And I guess how has that sort of played out in terms of your ethos and your approach to working with clients? Because I know sort of slightly different to maybe what some people might be used to or be expecting.
Emmy Brunner Yeah, I mean, it's really relationship focussed and really the priority is to get to know a person and treat a person rather than a diagnosis. And I guess what that means is that as human beings, we all have different wants and needs. And when you create a safe space for somebody to be really seen and heard, that can be really healing to them. I think the approach has evolved a lot over the years because my insight has grown and the kind of clinical skill that the team has, has really developed. And what we found over the years is really focussing on trauma and unprocessed trauma has really unlocked people's capabilities of healing just about anything, even like the most complex conditions. And I think when we pathologies people and their symptoms, we really make healing and the prospect of being completely sort of, well and balanced, really intangible and unachievable and when people think of their symptoms more as strategies for coping and responses for trauma, then suddenly they don't feel so odd anymore. They don't feel so stigmatised anymore. And everything becomes a process of healing and just a place of finding balance where you're able to respond to your needs and wants and nurture yourself.
Frankie Cotton Yeah, I find that really interesting. And, you know, talking there about overcoming trauma. I've I've been thinking about this a lot recently, how that for women just living in a patriarchal society sometimes just feels like a traumatic experience in itself. I wonder, would you say that that's fair? And is that sort of something that as women, you know, we all sort of at some point come into contact with or there's this sort of force at some point when we realise that and we have to do some healing?
Emmy Brunner Yeah, I think, gosh, I think there's so many of us that don't become aware of that or don't become conscious to that. And we kind of go about our days not being aware of those things. I think for those of us that are privileged enough to get that sort of insight, then we could or can feel inspired to try and challenge or change those systems. And certainly myself being a young, I guess, like nonconforming therapy type person in a very old white male environment, it was really challenging for me to find my voice, and certainly to be respected amongst my peers, and I think I made a decision very early on that if I was going to do well, I was going to have to really adopt a bit more of a lone wolf mentality, because I was just not getting any support from anybody around me. Everybody seemed very entrenched in the way things had always been and were very threatened by what I was doing and really challenged by it. So I think, yeah, I think it is something that's traumatic and I've certainly found it extremely challenging. But I guess how we respond to our traumas is key, isn't it? And for me, it kind of sparked a bit more of a sort of ferocious ambition to really buck against that and do something different. Even though maybe I was feeling terrified about it at the time, I was still able to put one foot in front of the other and achieve what I wanted to achieve, yeah.
Frankie Cotton And with that in mind, I really resonated with the article that you wrote for Huff Post entitled, 'Aren't We All Being Bullied', in which you say we exist in a culture that thrives on and endorses covert widespread bullying. Marketing campaigns tell us on a daily basis that we're not good enough, smart enough, slim enough, fit enough or pretty enough, and that because of these deficiencies, we are somehow not fully formed human beings. And I think that that is extremely powerful. And I wonder how can we start to build up our armour so that we don't internalise these messages?
Emmy Brunner I think part of it is becoming really awakened to what your narrative is about yourself. So I think what we get drawn into is really sort of peping ourselves up and kind of going on the defence or on the attack, rather than focussing our energy on really strengthening who we are, particularly as women at our core, because all of us have a narrative about how we view ourselves and how we see ourselves in the world and what we view as our gifts and skills and our offering. And when we see those kind of marketing campaigns, they're sort of speaking to the vulnerabilities within us and they're targeting our most shameful parts of ourselves. And if we're able to connect and that resonates with us for us to really call those into question. So almost not wasting our energy on challenging those external bodies that are doing that, but really focussing on going, how can I take myself into the most empowered place that I can be? I recognise that this advert, this kind of campaign is really speaking to a part of me that feels very ashamed and inadequate and unvalidated. How do I find my voice in this space, in this world? How do I become the change I want to see? And I think it doesn't occur to a lot of us to really challenge ourselves, to become truly empowered. We respond to a crisis, we react, but do we kind of quietly stoke the fires within and become truly passionate about who we are and create space and permission for ourselves to really go after what we want?
Frankie Cotton Yeah, I think that's it, isn't it? Sometimes it's that permission to to go after what you want. So rather than responding to others, which I think is a lot of what women are perhaps socialised to do is, is how can we find what we're after and what's inside us? And I think that that's certainly for me, I don't want to put this experience on anybody else but that's been a big challenge for me, is it sort of once you take away that responsiveness to a crisis or to others, it's sort of what else? Who am I without that I know who I am and how I respond in relation to others, but I don't know who I am or what I stand for without that? Is that a big part of the work that you do with your clients?
Emmy Brunner I think that's exactly the kind of work that we do. And I think particularly with my coaching clients being able to broaden their horizons about what they see themselves as capable of is just such a joyful part of the work because the ambitions and goals that we're working to in month one to two to three are so radically different from the work that we're doing month six to, I don't know, month 12. So in the beginning, we're kind of quietly starting to build confidence, quietly trying to find our voice, and by the end, we're sort of planning out business strategies and executing campaigns and, you know, really sort of going for it. And I think I'm struck by how wonderful the world would be if women realised just how powerful they were and really stepped into and owned their power, like how incredible that would be. I shock myself about what I've been capable of doing. And I think, God, I did that even sort of quivering in my boots at points. And what would it have been like if I really was able to invest confidence and a strength and a belief in myself at a younger age, given what I've achieved even now? And I think that's true for all of us.
Frankie Cotton Mhm. Yeah, definitely. And for someone who is perhaps listening to this podcast thinking they're right at the beginning. So they're one of his clients right in those early months you were just talking about thinking they don't know where to start, maybe they're feeling that they're in lots of pain or that they're lost. Where should they start? Where can we begin to counter some of this? I don't want to say negativity, but these sort of cycles that we can get into?
Emmy Brunner I think start being curious about what your story is. You know, I think it's not about, the big changes come when we're in flow and we're really stepping into our power. And that's when everything just flows like a river to us. But in the beginning, you've got to become wise and aware of what that narrative is because it's limiting you and the obstacles that you're coming up against. Are there because of the narrative that you have about yourself. And soon as you become awakened to that and really conscious of what that is, you're in a position to challenge it whereas we can't challenge what we don't know, and so much of it we've just become used to doing and unconsciously behave in ways that when we're just not mindful of, soon as you start to become really mindful, then that's when the magic happens I find.
Frankie Cotton Great. Now, Emmy, the concept of manifestation has been coming under some scrutiny recently, particularly when it comes to its use in finance. So the idea that you can sort of manifest a six figure income in a short period of time, there's been a lot of that happening in an economic recession and that does tend to ignore market economical constraints. But I know that manifestation is a pillar of your approach, and I wonder if you could explain your insight here. So so how does manifestation work? And I guess what are its limitations?
Emmy Brunner I guess basically we are creating the world that we exist in through our thoughts and our beliefs about ourselves. So it's it's not an accident when somebody thinks they're capable of doing anything that they do. Because what manifestation really means is that through our belief system, we are creating opportunities for ourselves. When we're not limited by restrictive beliefs about ourselves or self-imposed obstacles, then we are available to embrace and seek out more opportunities as a result. And because of that, we have those experiences. When people ask me about setting up a clinic and how I did that or why I did that, or how I had the confidence to do that, people are really sort of surprised because I didn't have the confidence to do that. It didn't occur to me that I was doing that. I just did it because I didn't think I couldn't. And so it wasn't that I was necessarily any more skilled than somebody else that could have done that, but I just didn't have that obstacle of thinking that that was impossible for me or something I wasn't capable of. And so I think there's a fundamental misunderstanding of manifestation. Manifestation isn't closing your eyes and willing something into existence. It's taking positive action and challenging yourself to step into opportunities to seek out people and experiences who are going to champion what it is that you're trying to achieve. And the more you believe in yourself and the more positive you are about the journey that you're on, the more likely that's going to happen. And that is why mindset is just 90 percent of the job.
Frankie Cotton And I wonder and I think perhaps you've you've sort of answered it there, really, but how can we then welcome more abundance into our lives? I feel like abundance is is something that we're all seeking. And and again, this is perhaps something that is misunderstood. You know, we think abundance means more things or more experiences, and it's not necessarily the case. And I wonder from your perspective, how can we bring more truer abundance into our lives?
Emmy Brunner I think this might sound a little bit woo woo I don't know but I think for me, just getting into that flow where you are seeking out people and experiences that make you feel joyful, where you are acting in a sense of service to others, when you're able to, where you have a sense of gratitude for what you have, where you are taking inspired action in your life, that's when you get into kind of abundant flow and things, people, opportunities just start to present themselves. And it's no longer a slog. You know, the amount of people when I say to them, 'hey, how you doing? How is your week?' 'Oh, pretty good. Yeah. Just got, getting through it.' Or like at this kind of really depressing perspective and expectation of what life should be, like something to kind of get through or manage to achieve by kind of surviving through it. And it's like really are these our expectations for what it is to have a human experience or can we embrace life in a completely different way? Can we approach our relationships with a full and open heart? Can we pursue careers based on what we find inspiring and exciting and joyful? And I think for those of us that don't do that often, it's just because it didn't occur to us that we should. Growing up I was never, no one ever spoke like that to me. I wouldn't have had the first clue how to handle something like that if advice had been given like that to me, I was very much put on the you go to school, you do your A-levels, you go to university, and then you probably get married and have some kids. And that's kind of that. And nobody kind of encouraged me to think creatively about what's possible for me as a person. And I think that's something that's really missing. You know, what would we all be doing if we thought we could?
Frankie Cotton Yeah, I think I think that's super interesting. And also, you know, what you were saying there about, you know, being quite down and and negative. I think that's a tricky one, because when we think about this year, for example, you know, it's been a real test, to say the least, for a lot of people. And I wonder, you know, in having these external circumstances that present themselves, right, it can be really tricky to maintain a positive mindset or really to create that attitude that you're talking about. How have you seen that play out this year and how have you seen that, I guess, in your clients and and overcoming some of some of these, the trickier sides of the year?
Emmy Brunner I think this year has been amazing in lots of ways for lots of people, because for the first time, people have been forced to stop. And for a lot of the people that I work with or have been in touch with clinic or through my coaching service, that for the first time perhaps ever thinking about what they're doing with their lives and as difficult and as painful as aspect of this whole pandemic have been, it's called people to question the quality of the lives that they're living. And isn't that the most wonderful gift? And I'm not belittling the devastating effects that this has had on so many people, but in the face of so many crises, since time began, good things happen as a result. And I think if the one good thing that came out of this was that people started to value the things that they perhaps neglected to notice, the the relationships in their lives, the time that they could spend with loved ones and to really challenge some of the things that they do. The amount of really high achieving women who I've either been friends with or know through work who've said that they're not spending enough time with their families, that they're putting far too much pressure on themselves from a career perspective, that actually they're they're having their doing jobs that they don't even enjoy. And it's inspired them to make great changes in their lives. So it's it's been a funny year for all of those different things. But sometimes, like I say, the darkest moments are when a little bit of light comes in.
Frankie Yeah. And I wonder on the flipside of that, because I'm definitely there with you and I do believe that there will be a lot of positivity that will have come out of this year. But one of the things I worry about is this movement online. And again, from my personal experience, I know that I'm on my phone a lot more. I'm on the Internet and on social media a lot more. And I wonder, will that and our sort of physical social separation, do you think that will have an impact on our wellbeing? And how can we start to maybe counter some of this sort of addiction, perhaps to to being online all the time?
Emmy Brunner I think it has countered our wellbeing, but I think it's been countering our well-being for a really long time. And I think being forced into a place where we weren't allowed to make human contact with each other has highlighted to everybody just how desperate we are for that as human beings and how important it is to all of us. So, yeah, I think we're in trouble. And I think the things that we didn't notice were happening were, increasing isolation, a sense of separation from one another was already playing out before this happened and it's just amplified that and highlighted it to us but we're now paying a little bit more attention. We're now recognising that we're really missing people, that we can't see we're not able to touch one another in the way that we did before. And these things that just didn't occur to us in the same way are suddenly resonating more profoundly than ever before. So I think as a kind of a group of people there's a race that we are already in a kind of spiritual deficit that we need to respond to and I'm hoping that this whole thing will prompt us to dig a little deeper and fight for something better than we were settling for before.
Frankie Cotton And do you think that we're in danger of going back to how we were before?
Emmy Brunner I don't know honestly, I think for some people, I think that this has created a shift that would never have happened had that not have played out the way that it did. But for some people, we get very comfortable with what's easy and what's easy is what's familiar. So sinking back into those familiar patterns I think is inevitable for a lot of people. But hopefully those of us that are inspired to do something differently will prompt change.
Frankie Cotton And Emmy, thank you so much for everything you've shared with us. I would love to just give you the opportunity before we wrap up, is there anything that you've not mentioned that we've not discussed that you'd like to pass on to our listeners?
Emmy Brunner I guess just giving yourself permission and the courage to fight for something greater for yourself and to not kind of ignore or fob off that nagging but quiet voice inside your head that tells you that there might be something more because there is. And if you pay attention and you start to listen, then you can really tune in with what it is your heart is seeking. And I guess just being brave, just be brave enough to do that and take those first steps. I'm just I'm so glad that I was prompted to do that. And I see those kinds of transformations in the women that I work with. And it's just it's just so inspiring. And I just hope everybody gets that opportunity.
Frankie Cotton Yeah, definitely. Me, too. Well, thank you so much, Emmy. It's been great chatting with you.
Emmy Brunner That's such a pleasure.
Frankie Cotton Emmy, welcome to Women on Top.
Emmy Brunner Thank you so much for having me.
Frankie Cotton How are you, first of all?
Emmy Brunner I'm really good. I've had a really busy week with work. But that's good. That's fun. Yeah, I'm grateful. Happy to be here.
Frankie Cotton Good. Well Emmy, I wonder if we could start can you tell us what brought you to the field of psychotherapy and the work that you do?
Emmy Brunner Yep, I tried to be a psychotherapist pretty young, it's a second career for a lot of people. But I was in my early 20s when I qualified, and I think I was really first and foremost really intrigued about how we can support people to heal and support their own sort of mental health journeys. And my own experiences that I'd been really unwell as a young person and had various different sort of mental health crises and really struggled to find the kind of support and help that I felt I needed and just wasn't very inspired to get better. And so when I trained, I really wanted to create something that was going to inspire life in people again, rather than just teaching them how to manage their mental health conditions.
Frankie Cotton And yeah, that's super interesting. And I guess how has that sort of played out in terms of your ethos and your approach to working with clients? Because I know sort of slightly different to maybe what some people might be used to or be expecting.
Emmy Brunner Yeah, I mean, it's really relationship focussed and really the priority is to get to know a person and treat a person rather than a diagnosis. And I guess what that means is that as human beings, we all have different wants and needs. And when you create a safe space for somebody to be really seen and heard, that can be really healing to them. I think the approach has evolved a lot over the years because my insight has grown and the kind of clinical skill that the team has, has really developed. And what we found over the years is really focussing on trauma and unprocessed trauma has really unlocked people's capabilities of healing just about anything, even like the most complex conditions. And I think when we pathologies people and their symptoms, we really make healing and the prospect of being completely sort of, well and balanced, really intangible and unachievable and when people think of their symptoms more as strategies for coping and responses for trauma, then suddenly they don't feel so odd anymore. They don't feel so stigmatised anymore. And everything becomes a process of healing and just a place of finding balance where you're able to respond to your needs and wants and nurture yourself.
Frankie Cotton Yeah, I find that really interesting. And, you know, talking there about overcoming trauma. I've I've been thinking about this a lot recently, how that for women just living in a patriarchal society sometimes just feels like a traumatic experience in itself. I wonder, would you say that that's fair? And is that sort of something that as women, you know, we all sort of at some point come into contact with or there's this sort of force at some point when we realise that and we have to do some healing?
Emmy Brunner Yeah, I think, gosh, I think there's so many of us that don't become aware of that or don't become conscious to that. And we kind of go about our days not being aware of those things. I think for those of us that are privileged enough to get that sort of insight, then we could or can feel inspired to try and challenge or change those systems. And certainly myself being a young, I guess, like nonconforming therapy type person in a very old white male environment, it was really challenging for me to find my voice, and certainly to be respected amongst my peers, and I think I made a decision very early on that if I was going to do well, I was going to have to really adopt a bit more of a lone wolf mentality, because I was just not getting any support from anybody around me. Everybody seemed very entrenched in the way things had always been and were very threatened by what I was doing and really challenged by it. So I think, yeah, I think it is something that's traumatic and I've certainly found it extremely challenging. But I guess how we respond to our traumas is key, isn't it? And for me, it kind of sparked a bit more of a sort of ferocious ambition to really buck against that and do something different. Even though maybe I was feeling terrified about it at the time, I was still able to put one foot in front of the other and achieve what I wanted to achieve, yeah.
Frankie Cotton And with that in mind, I really resonated with the article that you wrote for Huff Post entitled, 'Aren't We All Being Bullied', in which you say we exist in a culture that thrives on and endorses covert widespread bullying. Marketing campaigns tell us on a daily basis that we're not good enough, smart enough, slim enough, fit enough or pretty enough, and that because of these deficiencies, we are somehow not fully formed human beings. And I think that that is extremely powerful. And I wonder how can we start to build up our armour so that we don't internalise these messages?
Emmy Brunner I think part of it is becoming really awakened to what your narrative is about yourself. So I think what we get drawn into is really sort of peping ourselves up and kind of going on the defence or on the attack, rather than focussing our energy on really strengthening who we are, particularly as women at our core, because all of us have a narrative about how we view ourselves and how we see ourselves in the world and what we view as our gifts and skills and our offering. And when we see those kind of marketing campaigns, they're sort of speaking to the vulnerabilities within us and they're targeting our most shameful parts of ourselves. And if we're able to connect and that resonates with us for us to really call those into question. So almost not wasting our energy on challenging those external bodies that are doing that, but really focussing on going, how can I take myself into the most empowered place that I can be? I recognise that this advert, this kind of campaign is really speaking to a part of me that feels very ashamed and inadequate and unvalidated. How do I find my voice in this space, in this world? How do I become the change I want to see? And I think it doesn't occur to a lot of us to really challenge ourselves, to become truly empowered. We respond to a crisis, we react, but do we kind of quietly stoke the fires within and become truly passionate about who we are and create space and permission for ourselves to really go after what we want?
Frankie Cotton Yeah, I think that's it, isn't it? Sometimes it's that permission to to go after what you want. So rather than responding to others, which I think is a lot of what women are perhaps socialised to do is, is how can we find what we're after and what's inside us? And I think that that's certainly for me, I don't want to put this experience on anybody else but that's been a big challenge for me, is it sort of once you take away that responsiveness to a crisis or to others, it's sort of what else? Who am I without that I know who I am and how I respond in relation to others, but I don't know who I am or what I stand for without that? Is that a big part of the work that you do with your clients?
Emmy Brunner I think that's exactly the kind of work that we do. And I think particularly with my coaching clients being able to broaden their horizons about what they see themselves as capable of is just such a joyful part of the work because the ambitions and goals that we're working to in month one to two to three are so radically different from the work that we're doing month six to, I don't know, month 12. So in the beginning, we're kind of quietly starting to build confidence, quietly trying to find our voice, and by the end, we're sort of planning out business strategies and executing campaigns and, you know, really sort of going for it. And I think I'm struck by how wonderful the world would be if women realised just how powerful they were and really stepped into and owned their power, like how incredible that would be. I shock myself about what I've been capable of doing. And I think, God, I did that even sort of quivering in my boots at points. And what would it have been like if I really was able to invest confidence and a strength and a belief in myself at a younger age, given what I've achieved even now? And I think that's true for all of us.
Frankie Cotton Mhm. Yeah, definitely. And for someone who is perhaps listening to this podcast thinking they're right at the beginning. So they're one of his clients right in those early months you were just talking about thinking they don't know where to start, maybe they're feeling that they're in lots of pain or that they're lost. Where should they start? Where can we begin to counter some of this? I don't want to say negativity, but these sort of cycles that we can get into?
Emmy Brunner I think start being curious about what your story is. You know, I think it's not about, the big changes come when we're in flow and we're really stepping into our power. And that's when everything just flows like a river to us. But in the beginning, you've got to become wise and aware of what that narrative is because it's limiting you and the obstacles that you're coming up against. Are there because of the narrative that you have about yourself. And soon as you become awakened to that and really conscious of what that is, you're in a position to challenge it whereas we can't challenge what we don't know, and so much of it we've just become used to doing and unconsciously behave in ways that when we're just not mindful of, soon as you start to become really mindful, then that's when the magic happens I find.
Frankie Cotton Great. Now, Emmy, the concept of manifestation has been coming under some scrutiny recently, particularly when it comes to its use in finance. So the idea that you can sort of manifest a six figure income in a short period of time, there's been a lot of that happening in an economic recession and that does tend to ignore market economical constraints. But I know that manifestation is a pillar of your approach, and I wonder if you could explain your insight here. So so how does manifestation work? And I guess what are its limitations?
Emmy Brunner I guess basically we are creating the world that we exist in through our thoughts and our beliefs about ourselves. So it's it's not an accident when somebody thinks they're capable of doing anything that they do. Because what manifestation really means is that through our belief system, we are creating opportunities for ourselves. When we're not limited by restrictive beliefs about ourselves or self-imposed obstacles, then we are available to embrace and seek out more opportunities as a result. And because of that, we have those experiences. When people ask me about setting up a clinic and how I did that or why I did that, or how I had the confidence to do that, people are really sort of surprised because I didn't have the confidence to do that. It didn't occur to me that I was doing that. I just did it because I didn't think I couldn't. And so it wasn't that I was necessarily any more skilled than somebody else that could have done that, but I just didn't have that obstacle of thinking that that was impossible for me or something I wasn't capable of. And so I think there's a fundamental misunderstanding of manifestation. Manifestation isn't closing your eyes and willing something into existence. It's taking positive action and challenging yourself to step into opportunities to seek out people and experiences who are going to champion what it is that you're trying to achieve. And the more you believe in yourself and the more positive you are about the journey that you're on, the more likely that's going to happen. And that is why mindset is just 90 percent of the job.
Frankie Cotton And I wonder and I think perhaps you've you've sort of answered it there, really, but how can we then welcome more abundance into our lives? I feel like abundance is is something that we're all seeking. And and again, this is perhaps something that is misunderstood. You know, we think abundance means more things or more experiences, and it's not necessarily the case. And I wonder from your perspective, how can we bring more truer abundance into our lives?
Emmy Brunner I think this might sound a little bit woo woo I don't know but I think for me, just getting into that flow where you are seeking out people and experiences that make you feel joyful, where you are acting in a sense of service to others, when you're able to, where you have a sense of gratitude for what you have, where you are taking inspired action in your life, that's when you get into kind of abundant flow and things, people, opportunities just start to present themselves. And it's no longer a slog. You know, the amount of people when I say to them, 'hey, how you doing? How is your week?' 'Oh, pretty good. Yeah. Just got, getting through it.' Or like at this kind of really depressing perspective and expectation of what life should be, like something to kind of get through or manage to achieve by kind of surviving through it. And it's like really are these our expectations for what it is to have a human experience or can we embrace life in a completely different way? Can we approach our relationships with a full and open heart? Can we pursue careers based on what we find inspiring and exciting and joyful? And I think for those of us that don't do that often, it's just because it didn't occur to us that we should. Growing up I was never, no one ever spoke like that to me. I wouldn't have had the first clue how to handle something like that if advice had been given like that to me, I was very much put on the you go to school, you do your A-levels, you go to university, and then you probably get married and have some kids. And that's kind of that. And nobody kind of encouraged me to think creatively about what's possible for me as a person. And I think that's something that's really missing. You know, what would we all be doing if we thought we could?
Frankie Cotton Yeah, I think I think that's super interesting. And also, you know, what you were saying there about, you know, being quite down and and negative. I think that's a tricky one, because when we think about this year, for example, you know, it's been a real test, to say the least, for a lot of people. And I wonder, you know, in having these external circumstances that present themselves, right, it can be really tricky to maintain a positive mindset or really to create that attitude that you're talking about. How have you seen that play out this year and how have you seen that, I guess, in your clients and and overcoming some of some of these, the trickier sides of the year?
Emmy Brunner I think this year has been amazing in lots of ways for lots of people, because for the first time, people have been forced to stop. And for a lot of the people that I work with or have been in touch with clinic or through my coaching service, that for the first time perhaps ever thinking about what they're doing with their lives and as difficult and as painful as aspect of this whole pandemic have been, it's called people to question the quality of the lives that they're living. And isn't that the most wonderful gift? And I'm not belittling the devastating effects that this has had on so many people, but in the face of so many crises, since time began, good things happen as a result. And I think if the one good thing that came out of this was that people started to value the things that they perhaps neglected to notice, the the relationships in their lives, the time that they could spend with loved ones and to really challenge some of the things that they do. The amount of really high achieving women who I've either been friends with or know through work who've said that they're not spending enough time with their families, that they're putting far too much pressure on themselves from a career perspective, that actually they're they're having their doing jobs that they don't even enjoy. And it's inspired them to make great changes in their lives. So it's it's been a funny year for all of those different things. But sometimes, like I say, the darkest moments are when a little bit of light comes in.
Frankie Yeah. And I wonder on the flipside of that, because I'm definitely there with you and I do believe that there will be a lot of positivity that will have come out of this year. But one of the things I worry about is this movement online. And again, from my personal experience, I know that I'm on my phone a lot more. I'm on the Internet and on social media a lot more. And I wonder, will that and our sort of physical social separation, do you think that will have an impact on our wellbeing? And how can we start to maybe counter some of this sort of addiction, perhaps to to being online all the time?
Emmy Brunner I think it has countered our wellbeing, but I think it's been countering our well-being for a really long time. And I think being forced into a place where we weren't allowed to make human contact with each other has highlighted to everybody just how desperate we are for that as human beings and how important it is to all of us. So, yeah, I think we're in trouble. And I think the things that we didn't notice were happening were, increasing isolation, a sense of separation from one another was already playing out before this happened and it's just amplified that and highlighted it to us but we're now paying a little bit more attention. We're now recognising that we're really missing people, that we can't see we're not able to touch one another in the way that we did before. And these things that just didn't occur to us in the same way are suddenly resonating more profoundly than ever before. So I think as a kind of a group of people there's a race that we are already in a kind of spiritual deficit that we need to respond to and I'm hoping that this whole thing will prompt us to dig a little deeper and fight for something better than we were settling for before.
Frankie Cotton And do you think that we're in danger of going back to how we were before?
Emmy Brunner I don't know honestly, I think for some people, I think that this has created a shift that would never have happened had that not have played out the way that it did. But for some people, we get very comfortable with what's easy and what's easy is what's familiar. So sinking back into those familiar patterns I think is inevitable for a lot of people. But hopefully those of us that are inspired to do something differently will prompt change.
Frankie Cotton And Emmy, thank you so much for everything you've shared with us. I would love to just give you the opportunity before we wrap up, is there anything that you've not mentioned that we've not discussed that you'd like to pass on to our listeners?
Emmy Brunner I guess just giving yourself permission and the courage to fight for something greater for yourself and to not kind of ignore or fob off that nagging but quiet voice inside your head that tells you that there might be something more because there is. And if you pay attention and you start to listen, then you can really tune in with what it is your heart is seeking. And I guess just being brave, just be brave enough to do that and take those first steps. I'm just I'm so glad that I was prompted to do that. And I see those kinds of transformations in the women that I work with. And it's just it's just so inspiring. And I just hope everybody gets that opportunity.
Frankie Cotton Yeah, definitely. Me, too. Well, thank you so much, Emmy. It's been great chatting with you.
Emmy Brunner That's such a pleasure.
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